Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

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  Sea Breeze

  Rescue them from what?

  Sin, Judgment & Death (eternal abandonment)
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  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Sea Breeze

  TonusOH,

  We are under the death penalty because WE sin, not Adam. We simply inherited his nature. How is it a threat to you to offer to die in your place? I don't get the heartburn you're having.

  I don't know if you are M or F, or even if that matters because both men and women can sometimes display incredible willingness to trade their life for that of a child in certain extreme circumstances. The concept of trading your life for someone else's makes for some very good literature.... it is a recurring theme. When the Titanic went down, some gave up their seat so another could live.
  
  It is not only a common concept, but universally recognized as the pinnacle of virtue.

  Why is it bad if God desires to rescue his Children?

  @BM

  I think eternal non-existence is a far more accurate description than eternal punishment.

  I agree that is more comfortable to believe in. But, the reality is that God created man with an eternal spirit, a consciousness. Because we were created to enjoy him forever. We get to choose where we will be conscious forever - in the presence and family of God enjoying all the cool stuff he can make. Or, away from his presence, family and all the cool stuff he made.
• 
  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Sea Breeze

  That doesn't seem reasonable.

  I'll tell you what doesn't seem reasonable. God offers a substitute for the death penalty that we are under and offers to make us part of his family where he is obligated by blood to take care of us and nuture us, & personally see to our happiness forever. But, but many people would rather spend an eternity in hell rather than to receive his offer.
  
  That is what is truly unreasonable.
• 
  51

  Searching

  by Striker in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

  .

  .....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

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  Sea Breeze

  Great catch Striker.
• 
  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  • Earning salvation by trying to live a good life seems like a reasonable idea. If it's granted for any other reason, doesn't that imply that trying to live a good life is meaningless?

    Romans 11: 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. ESV

    Romans 3: 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight

    If you or I were running the show, we would likely have some sort of merit system. This works in school, it works in business, etc. But, we are not running the show, and we did not create the whole thing, so we don't get to dictate the terms.

    God has decided that the spirit of man is unfixable, it must die. God is not asking us to agree to something that he wasn't willing to do himself. But, all the same he is asking us to die to ourselves and abandon ourselves to a new spirit that he will personally give each person when they decide to trust in Jesus alone.
    
    So, while works are important, they are not necessary for Salvation. The are necessary to prove Salvation. Once a person is born again, his good works are acceptable, but he can only take credit for them insomuch that he recognizes they have come from the new spirit and are free from every vestige of the sin nature.

    To the unregenerated man, this is an outrage. But, in God's economy, the more you work for Salvation, the more sin debt you will owe on Judgment Day. Think about that!

    "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.” - Romans 4: 4
• 
  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

  1. 
  2. 
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  Sea Breeze

  Sometimes the Borg inserts this narrative to follow Jesus or honor Him

  Here are some terms that come to mind.

  1. Footstep followers of Jesus Christ

  2. Imitate Jesus

  It's all works based stuff, earing your salvation. They blatantly disobey Jesus' command to be born again. They disobey Jesus when he says to "take eat, take drink this is my blood of the covenant for the forgivenesss of sins"

  When it comes to stuff that actually has to do with salvation, JW's are certain to reject that.
• 
  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  If you ask a JW to whom is the ransom paid, you'll get different answers.

  Scripture says that : the wages of sin is death. That is the just punishment for our own sin. Jesus paid the wages "for us", in our palce, to our personal account.

  So, the answer is quite simply: the ransom is paid to YOU.

  1 Peter 3: 18 - Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust

  God trades the Justified for the Unjustified.

  Chew on that.
• 
  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  What Jesus offers is the opposite of a carrot and stick:

  BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED. - Romans 3: 20

  YOUR WORKS ARE QUITE IMPORTANT......JUST NOT FOR SALVATION

  if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10: 9
• 
  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  we could look at the basic teachings attributed to a man called Jesus, and think about how, if we lived by those, what would the earth be like?

  That's the problem, we can't.... that's why we need Grace, a new spirit and a Personal Savior.

  Here's a quick vid on the early Christian leaders taught by the apostles. There simply was no JW wackiness back them among them.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0mYcnlwSQ&list=PLhdOSGGHjmrAzG-Vi8Bp3kam9XiwC4NhL
• 
  75

  WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

  by raymond frantz in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

  the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

  these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  
  

  Questions on the historical existence of Jesuss are off-topic. Why don't you start a thread on that subject?

  There are over 45000 Christian denominations worldwide

  Most are just different flavors. Most are congregation led. That way heresy is contained locally when it arises.

  Not many churches disagree on how to get saved, the ones that do are cults.

  When a person has a reprobate mind, they can no longer read the Word of God and understand. They could read something very similar in another book and have no trouble understanding.

  There is no problem understanding this verse for a person whose mind hasn't been ruined:

  And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.” - Mt. 26: 27–28

  Very simple, as is this:

  “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

  Anyone reading these verses gets the idea that Jesus wants to take your sin debt off of you and place it upon himself so that he can die in your place.
  
  God spent spent 1500 years to try and get people used to the idea of substitutional atonement in the Old Testament. If you have a reprobate mind, God could spend an eternity trying to get people to understand it and it still wouldn't matter. They would have no trouble accepting the concept if read in another book though.

  The bottom line is that JW's and people in general really don't want to be saved, because they are depraved. They don't want someone else to cover their debt which requires the death penalty. Most don't even acknowledge that they have a debt to pay, although they hypocritically require payment from others when they are sleighted.

  These kinds of folks want to earn Salvation so they can protect their illusion of righteousness, rather than be transformed into it.
  
  The Ransom-For-Adam spin that the WT sells is an attempt to explain away Jesus sacrifice as something other than a substitutional atonement "for each of us" and protect peoples secret desire to justify themselves. This of course is unacceptable to God and is very rude because God clearly states that:

  "BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED" - Romans 3: 20

  Personally, have no idea why God would want to save ANY of us. I speculate that believers will be fit creatures to properly love him and increase his joy and quality of life one day.

  But why would God want to spend eternity with someone with a broken mind who can't even receive a free gift, someone who requires justice from others but not themselves?
  
  Who would want to spend an evening with someone like that? ... much less an eternity?